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Festers big resto.

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Dave Campbell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Festers big resto.
    Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:20pm
I finally had a chance to make a small start on Joannes '67 beetle resto today.

After collecting and importing parts over the last year, getting Jack to make me a set of his amazing axle stands and re-roofing the garage that I will be working in it was time today to make a start.

This is the last picture of the car complete and on the ground;


P1120983 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

These are the axle stands that Jack is making and they will be incredibly usefull for the restoration.


P1120984 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With the wheel bolts loosened and the car up on the stands it can be moved around very easily, important as the garage isnt the biggest and Marks 69 cabrio will be getting worked on at the same time.

Here is the view of the stands from underneath;

 
P1120988 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr


P1120990 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With it up off the floor I have more space to get underneath. The stands height is adjustable and they can go highter if I need them to.

The car is not rotten but the pan edges are starting to go along with the rear corners and jacking points so its time to do it properly instead of patching it up only to have to cut the patches out at a later date.

Im hoping the floor pan bolts undo without too much of a fight but unlikely;


P1120992 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Plans for the resto are to;

 Fit the new 18 guage floorpans I imported from Wolfsburg west in California.

 Fit the heater channels I had cut from a rust free early Beetle and imported from California.

Fit the '67 only rear vallance and engine side trays that came from a rust free bug in Cali'.

Do any welding that comes up (thinking front bulkhead needs work).

Prep and paint,

Re-trim and new engine.

Might not be the fastest resto in the world but I will try and keep this thread updated as I go along.

Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gambit_67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:29pm
Bet you,re finished it before im finished mine Embarrassed. If you ever get the chance for another pair of early cali heater channels give me a shout, i bought some repro ones and theyre shi.......pped in plastic wrapping. Good luck anyway big boy. Oh i'll be up some time this year to pick up that (cough) part
 
Frank 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:33pm
Cheers mate but you may still be finished first knowing how slowly I work.

Next load from the states I will put you down for channels. Having looked at the repro channels I know why you dont want to use them.

Dave.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote beetlesi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 11:32pm
Woohoo another bug resto Wink
About time Dave.

I'll be watching this closely.

If you're going back to the states - keep your eyes peeled for an early 60s golde sunroof and roof clip for my bugBig smile and i'll square you up.
Ta much
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2012 at 8:26pm
Wedding and honeymoon over and time to get some work done.

Started the strip down today and not surprisingly the rear wing bolts were either seized solid or the captive nuts were no longer captive.

One thing for it, grind 'em off.


P1140450 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With both rear wing off, bumpers off and front offside wing off I could start to guage the tin worm;


P1140459 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

The offside rear 1/4 and inner wing seems to be pretty grotty;


P1140461 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Jacking points and rear floorp and are a very common rot spot so it was no surprise that the jack point easily broke away in my hand. The new pans will not have jacking points fitted as they are just too much of a dirt trap and very hard to paint behind.


P1140462 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Rest of the sill and heater channel bottom plate dont look too bad but you can see the perforations in the floor pan edge in this pic;


P1140465 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Front inner wing was pretty good but still a bit of work needed where the bulkhead has rusted through the corner;


P1140463 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Not looking worse than expected which is a bonus so hope to get back to it soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vdoubleuu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2012 at 8:33pm
How much do the stands cost? and does he make them for a 1303?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2012 at 8:35pm
They are made by Beetlejac on this very forum. Im sure you could use them on a 1303 with no problem. They are so good a second set arrived today for the yellow beetle in the background of the pictures.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2012 at 7:18pm
I dont know that updates will always be this regular but with another day off for the bank holiday I got more work completed.

Offside front wing came off first and the inner wing is better than the nearside;


P1140469 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Same can be said for all of the offside body but strangely the floor and heater channel on this side look worse than the nearside.

With the last wing off and the tailpipes removed the car now fits perfectly (with the bonnet open and heater removed) across the garage. These stands are worth their weight in gold;


P1140468 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Inside the car the sill and floor look not bad, just a bit scabby round the edges;


P1140482 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr


P1140483 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

But going by the floor pan bolts there is a fair bit of rusted steel inside the heater channels. The top of this bolt would stick up inside the channel.;


P1140485 by
route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Wings arent in the safest place but at least they look pretty;


P1140488 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Next job is to strip out the interior then I can start getting ready to cut.

Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote beetlesi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2012 at 11:22pm
Fast progress on this Dave.
It's amazing what you can find when you dig into a good looking old beetle Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2012 at 6:25pm
Dig is a good word for it Si. Especially after today.

First job was to dig out the donor heater channel so that I had an idea how much of the car will come off;


P1140490 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

As you can see there is a good bit of panel work still attatched to the channels from California and I plan to use as much of this metalwork as I can.

It also lets me paint the inside of the heater channels before fitting as I am never directly welding to the channel.

This is the grotty rear 1/4 before cleaning;


P1140492 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

And after;



P1140494 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr


For some reason the weld inside the arch is a nice neat butt welded seam but where the panel is on the outside of the car its a messy overlap, spotwelded and sculpted in filler

Its not just a skim of filler, I think the artex on my ceiling is thinner (pound coin for reference);


P1140495 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

At least the dust saved me having to find a white pen to mark my line;


P1140498 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

At the front it dosnt look so bad......Yet;


P1140501 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

After a clean up the new panel should come higher than the previous repair which will make fitting easier and neater;


P1140503 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Except the same sculpter has applied his skills to filling the front 1/4 panel;


P1140504 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

So here is where I left it tonight...... VERY dusty work so I think I will invest in a mask before my next session;


P1140507 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I think before I go on I need to go and find my welder, buy some steel for patches and some other supplies.

Dave.




Edited by Dave Campbell - 11 April 2012 at 6:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gambit_67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2012 at 12:43am
Hey dave those channels look spot on and just what id be looking for except id want/need more of the original meatal attached. Irish guy on vzi was selling 2 complete sides including channels and both front and rear quarters just after i bought car,wish id taken them now,couldve saved me lot o grief. Anyway measure twice cut once,good work. Oh and id it ok to pick that pan half up at biggar? You know that 1 that cost me (cough) 50 quid!?

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2012 at 10:47pm
I finally have a proper update for the thread.

I spent today cleaning off more of the filler, first of all on the front quarter.

Here is a quick video showing just how messy this job is for anybody who has yet to experience the fun of filler removal;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/route9autos/6979704176/

That left me with an almost bare quarter panel.


P1140604 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

All looks ok but there is a serious low area behind the wing mountin area which would explain all the filler. I cant work out if its accident damage or poor previous repair work.

I also got on to working out how far up the rear quarter panel the filler extended and I am now left with a filler free panel with lots of original red paint left on it.


P1140605 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I then whipped off the door so that I could get better access to start stripping the paint and carpet glue from the inside of the car which has left me with a killer back ache as its a really awkward area to fold 6foot 3inch of dave into.


P1140602 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Im not yet ready to start the proper cuts, I am still trying to decide on painting or investigating the galvanizing process for the heater channels.

Dave

Edited by Dave Campbell - 29 April 2012 at 10:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2012 at 9:49pm
Done a bit of investigation work and it looks like galvanizing will be too expensive and require too much work so hope to visit an industrial paint suppliers this week or next. I have been told about brush on galvanizer and resin marine paints so will price these up as a DIY option.

Did get some more prep work done this evening.


P1140736 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With the new panel on the floor I need to accurately transfer the shape of the new panel onto the car as a guide to where I will cut.

For that I need to make up a template.

First job is to cover the panel with tape. The bottom of the 1/4 panel will serve as a line to match with whats on the car and to double check measurements I will measure the door opening down from the gutter line.


P1140737 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I then transferred the template onto the car as a cutting guide. I will need to check and re-check measurements before I cut but this will give me a really good idea of where to cut.


P1140738 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I will also fit the door after tacking the sill in place before the final weld to check measurements.


P1140739 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Unfortunately the new panel wont cover the bad previous repair but I will remove all of the past replacement panel, clean up whats there and make a new plate to fill the space.

I also got the front 1/4 panel and inner arch template in place and as hoped the previous repair line falls within the area that will be cut off.


P1140741 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr


P1140743 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Moved onto a template for the front bulkhead;


P1140744 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr


P1140748 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With the inner template and the outer template in place the top edges look pretty closely lined up. This will be checked before cutting by drilling a small hole at the top of the outer template and seeing how close it lines up.

I may remove some of the metal from the new panel in this area to make it easier to work with.

Once I sort out the right paint for the new panels I will start cutting.

Dave.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote DAVID007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2012 at 11:57am
I think given the work involved , maybe in the long term the galvanising  would have a more durable life span ,, I have heard of a Company " Frost " I think they were called from a guy who build a kit car a few years ago ,,and given the costs of specialist paints ,,the galv kind of burns into the metal as oppose to surface paint treatments ?? , was also wondering if it may have been easier to try to " square " up or as near as possible your new donor part rather than try to cut the existing bodywork to its shape ?? I do bow to you guys expertise in being able weld ,, I just jump back everytime it sparks ,,  Shocked breaking the contact ,,may need to try doing itsometime with a few glasses of wine in me for Dutch courage ,,Confused  ,, best of luck though with your project ..have these axle stands on my Christmas wish  for about 3 years now they do just look the dogs ......`s ,

gOOD LUCK ,,

David

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2012 at 1:10pm
Hi David, biggest problem with galvanizing is the need to supply the panels completely stripped of paint and surface rust. Only way to do this with the heater chanels is to get them dipped which means the costs are getting pretty serious.

Frost have some good stuff but their prices are pretty high so Im going to source the paints from an industrial paint supply place in Glasgow.

The reason for not squaring off the new panels is I want to use as much factory made steel as possible and if I trimmed them down the new weld line would fall below the weld line of the last restoration. This would leave factory steel, a patch of repair panel then factory steel. I would rather just have one weld line where possible.

Put the stands on your list this year as they are worth their weight in gold. Speak to Beetlejack on this forum as he made them and can make them with higher rated wheels for campers if needed.

Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DAVID007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2012 at 1:46pm
I did think " galv " had to be applied to " virgin metal ", and as you say to try to totally cleanse irregular shapes by buffing etc , would be an almost impossible task , just  as time passes people are sometimes coming up with new methods and  just wondered if as you say a new dipping facility had emerged but at a cost effective charge ,,
I can appreciate you wanting to maximise your new " factory " steel donor parts ,, the quality of original " German " steel is just so much superior to the after market panels that are on offer ,,so,so sad ,, I was told ( dont know if its true or not ) ,, but ex- Ravenscraig out Motherwell way ,, allegedly manufactured the steel that BMW ,, used ,, but British Manufacturers Accountants deemed it to expensive ,, not sure who or where produced the original VW, steel though ??
As in previous years the Axle stands will be back on my lists, I think if possible I would try to push the boat out and go for the heavy duty wheels version as they would cover the full spectrum ,, just like most of these pieces of kit you really require a good rolling surface , as oppose to an old floor that breaking up in parts , though currently I`ve been outside on slabs/ patio so that surface would be basically okay ,,  might put one set on my birthday wish list and another on Christmas wish list  ,,, ohhhh !!! I so believe in Santa Claus  ,,, please ,, please visit me ,,I`ve been a good boy LOL
Will keep a watch on your progress ,, good luck with it all  ,,

David
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Beetlejac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:30pm

Thats you in the "Married man VW club" now david,no time for out in the garage.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 9:15pm
Work will resume shortly mate. Thats not me announcing my divorse, I have been researching paints and building up some funds before I attack the project in the next couple of weeks.

Hows the fastback?Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Beetlejac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:07pm


Hows the fastback?Tongue
[/QUOTE]
Smart arse
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2012 at 3:56pm
Its about time I started back at this resto and with 3 weeks holiday I have no excuses*

As it is a few weeks since I had got to the garage the inevitable tidying up needed done then I dug out the sill/heater channel I will be starting with;


P1150332 heater channel by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

My plan is to coat the pans and heater channels with Jotamastic or similar resin paint prior to fitting (I will leave a couple of inches along the weld areas un painted) so I want to get the panels clean and double check their integrity.

Good old wire twist brush to start with on the underside;

Before;

P1150333 underside before by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

After;

P1150336 heater channel bottom after cleaning by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Nothing is as good as finding metal as good as the day it left the factory.

I think for speed and ease I will visit a few shotblasters tomorrow to get a few quotes. Doing flat open areas is fine but the more intricate corners will not be very easy with the grinder and with the floorpans being such a large surface area I would be there about 2 weeks.

I had been hoping to have paint here to be getting on with but the Jotamastic supplier on ebay wasnt very forthcoming with information when I emailed him a few questions so I will see if I can find a supplier in Glasgow that I can visit and annoy before I hand over hard earned.

I really hope to have pans and channels done before I return to work but depends how much real life gets in the way.

Dave

*appart from a wedding, couple of weekends away and wanting to get out on my bike a few days.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DAVID007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2012 at 5:31pm
I think were all similar ,, we look at a job and think ,,I`ll do that in a morning and your still there a day or so after ,,things always seem easier when we do them mentally in our minds ,,Cry 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wat50n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2012 at 9:19pm
So glad i'm passed this stage Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2012 at 4:44pm
Dropped both heater channels off at a sandblasters today. It will cost me £70 to have both channels cleaned but it will save me many hours work and they will be cleaner than I would get them with the twist brush on the angle grinder.

I will use my random orbit sander on the floor pans as they are a less complex shape.

Visited a Trimite suppliers as well.

5 litres or epoxy primer is around £60 but I will need to buy 5 litres of hardener as they dont sell it in smaller batches so another £60! If anybody is thinking of buying paint, let me know and we could split the hardener.

Mates wedding tomorrow so no updates for a few days.

Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2012 at 9:20pm
So whie I was at my mates wedding the heater channels were blasted and ready for collection this morning.

Every time I think about getting rid of my Audi it prooves itself incredibly usefull.

Thats both Beetle heater channels in the boot.


P1150409 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

This is a good shot showing the sills/heater channels after sandblasting.

Sandblasting has left a rough texture over the panel but thats no problem. The only areas I need to work on to get smooth are the top of the sill as it passes the door opening, the rear 1/4 section and the door post section.

The santblasted texture will act as a great key for the paint system I have on the way.


P1150414 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

With a quick buzz over with a flap disk the sandblasted texture is smooth enough for a paint finish and rough enough to provide a key for the epoxy primer thats on the way.


P1150416 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Looks like the rust is still munching its way through the old sills.


P1150415 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I dont remember them even being soft when I was jacking the car up!

I have also ordered up Jotomastic epoxy boat primer so when it gets here the sills and floor panels will be prepped and painted in the hope I can get to cutting and welding by the weekend.

Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2012 at 11:11pm
Update time and its been a long day.

To start with I wanted to finish getting both heater channels ready for paint. After looking at them I decided to trim off some of the un needed metal work. In particular I thought I would separate the remains of the boot floor panel from each heater channel to make lining up the new panel easier.

I cut the section by removing the spotwelds along the original build line so that I can do the same on the car.


P1150860 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

While cleaning up I found a couple of small holes;


P1150861 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Nothing major and pretty insignificant for 40 year old panels.

Quick weld and sand and they are gone;


P1150863 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Then onto the paint. I have bought jotamastic 87 to paint on the heater chanels which is an epoxy paint system designed for use on boats and industrial structures so it should be up to the job.

Dosnt look like £80 worth of paint (note the paint sprayer in the background);


P1150865 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

I was only intending to do the underside of the panel as I wont be able to do this once its fitted to the car and bolted to the floor but there was the start of surface rust in places so decided to do the whole panel and I will clean the edges when welding.

I mixed the paint hardner and thinners to the correct ratio, filled the paint sprayer and got ready to spray;


P1150867 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Good look?

Ready to go and the sprayer imediately packed in so it was out with the gloss roller. The foam on the gloss roller reacted with the paint and disintegrated so it was onto a brush so the finish isnt perfect but as said its not the finished job.


P1150868 by route9autos.co.uk, on Flickr

Left them to dry and ideally I will give the undersides a second coat and get the floor pans done so that I can start cutting out the old parts and get onto fitting the new.

Dave.
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